[Bob]

WannaGo, on 03 October 2009 - 01:36 AM, said:

This is the same chance any defendant takes in making a deal...judges don't typically deviate from the recommendation, but I've seen it happen more than once.

That's true and I've seen it happen many times too - but it's always been based on the pre-sentence report unearthing some nasty things (like other crimes or proclivities) or something the defendant did since the plea was accepted. And it works both ways - I've seen judges give less than the recommended sentence where good things were unearthed by the report.

For those that don't know, a defendant, after entering a plea (or after being found guilty at trial) goes through a pre-sentence investigation conducted usually by a probation officer. That officer then writes a report and then recommends a sentence in writing - and oftentimes, if the state has sentencing guidelines, includes the calculations or ranges of times provided by those guidelines. That report and recommendation is given to the judge, prosecutor, and the defendant. Just prior to sentencing, the judge will ask the defendant if he takes any issue with any of the factual statements in the report and gives the defendant (or, oftentimes, his counsel) the opportunity to correct any errors. The prosecutor is essentially asked the same thing although they usually don't have much to say as the prosecutor usually isn't involved in the pre-sentence investigation. Then the judge announces the sentence (and that's the first time anybody knows what it will be - which continues to beg the question for me as to how Polanski or his counsel "knew" what the judge might do). And, I'd note, in my experience, the judge's first consideration of what the sentence will be is either right before the hearing when he reads the pre-sentence report and/or when he arrives on the bench and decides at that point in time.

In probably 95% of the cases, the recommendation is followed by the court rather blindly.

[Beer Chang]

I'd like the USA to set up a deal with some out of the way country that needs the money to take our prisoners. We'd pay let's say 25K per prisoner.

No prisoner would be forced to go, but some might prefer living as a free man in Somalia rather than locked up for life in Leavenworth.

Penalty for returning to the USA would be death.

[smoker]

If we send them to Somalia they might become pirates.

Not that I'm saying that's a bad thing.

I love that we live in a world that still has pirates.

[Beer Chang]

Today in a Washington Post editorial it was said if Roman is really innocent he should have no problem agreeing to extradition.

What a load of crap.

Guilty men sometimes go free and innocent men wrongly incarcerated.

[lvdkeyes]

He has already admitted his guilt.

[Beer Chang]

Why did he go to Switzerland in the first place?

Stupid move.

[Wino]

Beer Chang, on 03 October 2009 - 10:55 AM, said:

Why did he go to Switzerland in the first place?

Stupid move.

From what I have read, he has been to Switzerland many times without any problems. It is reported, he even owns a chalet in Switzerland. The problem in this instance, was the fact he was going to receive a lifetime achievement award. The organizers advertized this fact on the internet, thinking it would draw people to the event. I guess the powers that be, saw this news and decided to force the Swiss government to arrest Polanski.

[smoker]

Beer Chang, on 03 October 2009 - 10:11 AM, said:

Today in a Washington Post editorial it was said if Roman is really innocent he should have no problem agreeing to extradition.

What a load of crap.

Guilty men sometimes go free and innocent men wrongly incarcerated.

And innocent men sometimes plead guilty to reduced charges if they think it will save them 50 years in prison.

[Beer Chang]

smoker, on 04 October 2009 - 09:50 AM, said:

And innocent men sometimes plead guilty to reduced charges if they think it will save them 50 years in prison.

Exactly, can't risk the roll of the dice and end up for years and years in some nightmareish prison with violent gangs.

On the other hand, a year in Club Fed wouldn't be all that bad.

[Bob]

smoker, on 04 October 2009 - 09:50 AM, said:

And innocent men sometimes plead guilty to reduced charges if they think it will save them 50 years in prison.

I suppose that has happened on rare occasion. I've never known it to happen but maybe it has. I remember one of the quotes from a famous Denver criminal lawyer who said something to the effect: My record was as good as Perry Mason's but none of my clients were innocent.

[rucus7]

smoker, on 04 October 2009 - 09:50 AM, said:

And innocent men sometimes plead guilty to reduced charges if they think it will save them 50 years in prison.

I guess it is possible ....... About as often as green monkeys fly out of your ass ....

[Beer Chang]

rucus7, on 05 October 2009 - 06:46 AM, said:

I guess it is possible ....... About as often as green monkeys fly out of your ass ....

It's not about guilt or innocence. It's about a risk/reward ratio and the probabilty of the verdict.

Let's put it this way. Let's say if you go to trial you have a chance to lose go to prison for 10 years and get raped everyday. You might take a plea bargain if the deal is a suspended sentence and community service.

[smoker]

I spent 10 years covering the criminal court system for the state of New Jersey. I can think of a dozen cases that I know about where guys were released after taking plea deals and pleading guilty a few years later when the cops discovered some other guy had done it.

These were the ones where the cops eventually figured out who really did it and wanted to get that new person badly enough where they were willing to admit it to the press. How many cases do you think occurred where the cops never realized they fucked up.

Here's the deal. I don't know about you but if the prosecutors office said to me: "Hey we are going to put a little girl on the stand and she's going to be very convincing and the jury is going to feel sorry for her and want to punish someone. Now you can either plead guilty now and do six months or risk the jury believing her and do 50 years" I might be tempted to plead guilty even if I didn't do it.

[WannaGo]

You're right, this is not uncommon, particularly when the defendant is poor, young or black, especially in dope cases. I even knew of a guy who was going to go down on a homicide charge because the cops had a confession and his PD told him to take the 15-year deal the prosecutor was offering, instead of risking the life sentence he could have gotten after trial. Only he hadn't actually done it...he was just stupid and made the confession as a way of getting back at his girlfriend over a fight (refer back to the stupid part). Fortunately it got worked out, but the guy was ready to enter a plea.

Having said that, I haven't seen anything at this point to convince me that was the case with Polanski. He's had 30 years to make his case to the public that he did not have sex with the girl and did not force her, but I've never seen anything like that, although, to be fair, I haven't followed the case closely. Still, if this happened to me, and I didn't do it, I'd be shouting that from the mountaintops, not complaining about how the judge didn't play fair with me.

Frankly, I'm tired of this guy and his clown show already. He's old...surely he'll die soon, right?

[smoker]

He really couldn't shout from the rooftops. In an effort to get this behind him he made a deal with the girl part of which was that he would not discuss the case or challenge her or her mother publically.

[Wino]

Maybe Roman will be visiting the USA, again. See the following.

By BRADLEY S. KLAPPER and BALZ BRUPPACHER, Associated Press Writers Bradley S. Klapper And Balz Bruppacher, Associated Press Writers –
BERN, Switzerland – Roman Polanski lost the first round Tuesday in his battle to avoid extradition to the U.S. for having sex in 1977 with a 13-year-old girl. Already locked in a Zurich cell for the last dozen days, Polanski learned he will remain incarcerated for an extended period as the Swiss Justice Ministry rejected his plea to be released from custody.
Full story at http://news.yahoo.co...erland_polanski

[smoker]

I wonder why they consider him a flight risk.

[lvdkeyes]

Probably because he has the money and wherewithall to fly away.

[WannaGo]

Oops.

Frédéric Mitterrand admitted to paying for sex with 'young boys’ in Thailand

Frédéric Mitterrand, France’s culture minister, was under pressure to resign after it emerged that he had admitted to paying “young boys” for sexual acts while on holiday in Thailand.

The revelations in his 2005 autobiography “The Bad Life” have come back to haunt Mr Mitterrand after he emerged as one of the most vociferous defenders of Roman Polanski, the film director currently detained in Switzerland in connection with an outstanding conviction for unlawful sexual intercourse with a 13-year-old girl in the US in 1977.

In his book, Mr Mitterrand, the nephew of the late Socialist president François Mitterrand, wrote: “I got into the habit of paying for boys...All these rituals of the market for youths, the slave market excite me enormously.

“One could judge this abominable spectacle from a moral standpoint but it pleases me beyond the reasonable.”

Curiously, there was little outcry when the book was published in 2005. However, Mr Mitterrand’s tastes were brought to the fore on Monday by Marine Le Pen, daughter of the far-right National Front leader, Jean-Marie Le Pen, on a political chat show.

More

[smoker]

I can't imagine that bothering anyone in France - a country where weird sexual stuff is somewhat expected.