16 replies to this topic

[Wino]

Another one for Sarah!

Politifact.com, a fact-checking Web site owned by the St. Petersburg Times, has selected its No. 1 political falsehood of the year: Sarah Palin's assertion that the Democratic health care bill would create "death panels" -- government bodies with authority to decide whether individual citizens should receive medical treatment. The site said that 61 percent of its readers also voted Palin's "death panel" remark as the No. 1 political lie of the year.

The remark was one of Palin's first political statements after she announced she would resign as governor of Alaska on July 3, and catapulted the former vice presidential candidate back into the political spotlight.

"The America I know and love is not one in which my parents or my baby with Down syndrome will have to stand in front of Obama's 'death panel' so his bureaucrats can decide, based on a subjective judgment of their 'level of productivity in society,' whether they are worthy of health care," Palin wrote. "Such a system is downright evil."

The statement "spread through newscasts, talk shows, blogs and town hall meetings," Politifact writes. "Of all the falsehoods and distortions in the political discourse this year, [it] stood out from the rest."


http://www.politicsd...-of-the-year%2F

[patong]

And what about Obama's promises. More open government, no more pork, blah blah. You got to laugh at these US politicians (from either party), so long as you are not a US tax payer. I bailed out of the UK 25 years ago because of the high taxes.

[Thaimo]

I have a very simple rule of thumb, which is almost always accurate: Believe nothing the government tells you. Nothing.

And that applies to every government on the planet.

[Beer Chang]

Thaimo, on 22 December 2009 - 05:51 AM, said:

Believe nothing the government tells you. Nothing.

I agree, it's hardly ever in a government's interest to tell the truth without self serving spin.

[Wino]

We don't believe what the government has to say, yet many look to the government to solve their woes.

[Thaimo]

Wino, on 22 December 2009 - 10:40 PM, said:

We don't believe what the government has to say, yet many look to the government to solve their woes.

Sometimes there is no alternative. If there was one, that would be my first stop. Regarding my own woes, for the life of me I can't think of any the government has ever solved. I can think of plenty they've created, but none they've solved.

[Bob]

Thaimo, on 22 December 2009 - 10:51 PM, said:

Sometimes there is no alternative. If there was one, that would be my first stop. Regarding my own woes, for the life of me I can't think of any the government has ever solved. I can think of plenty they've created, but none they've solved.

I wouldn't go that far. Yes, I'm generally suspicious of government and pandering politicians - and just about every country has its poltical system substantially corrupted by money. From the US point of view, it'd be easy to provide a fairly long list of the screw-ups of government; however, there's also a very long list of both mundane and impressive accomplishments too (social security and medicare would be pretty good examples of the latter).

I don't agree with the one British poster's fairly complete negativity toward Obama. He's been in office for less than a year and, in my view, he's accomplished quite a bit (even if a lot of it is simply the perceptions of others in the world) in that time period. Without him, we wouldn't have the opportunity to revamp the health care system which has been on the agenda since Teddy Roosevelt. Is it a perfect solution? Hell no, but it's far better than what we've had in my lifetime.

[Beer Chang]

Wino, on 22 December 2009 - 10:40 PM, said:

We don't believe what the government has to say, yet many look to the government to solve their woes.

Yes, many want government to institute polices that help them but that's different than beliveing what governments say such as the lies that Hank Paulson told Congress. He thought he was doing the right thing by lying and perhaps he did, but lies nontheless.

[patong]

Bob, on 23 December 2009 - 01:51 AM, said:

I don't agree with the one British poster's fairly complete negativity toward Obama. He's been in office for less than a year and, in my view, he's accomplished quite a bit (even if a lot of it is simply the perceptions of others in the world) in that time period. Without him, we wouldn't have the opportunity to revamp the health care system which has been on the agenda since Teddy Roosevelt. Is it a perfect solution? Hell no, but it's far better than what we've had in my lifetime.

Hey, the topic is about 'political lies', not about accomplishments.

So you think I am being 'completely negative' by pointing out that during the campaign period Obama promised (many times) that government would be open, no more decisions behind closed doors, and on C-span. I did not notice any of that during the revamp of the health bill in Harry's office. Then there was 'no more ear-marks/pork' and we will read budget bills 'line-by-line' weeding out earmarks/pork. Ok the first time was excused by blaming Bush (again), what about this time in the latest budgets ?? Record pork there. I could go on and on, but I don't really care as he's not my President. I got to laugh at how many folks rush to defend Obama, yet these same folks continue to bash Bush and Palin. All these politicians are much the same, all manipulate/spin the facts. I'll say it again, I'm glad I am not a US tax payer and I'll continue to watch with interest how the US fairs in the years to come.

[Bob]

patong, on 23 December 2009 - 01:12 PM, said:

I got to laugh at how many folks rush to defend Obama, yet these same folks continue to bash Bush and Palin. All these politicians are much the same, all manipulate/spin the facts. I'll say it again, I'm glad I am not a US tax payer and I'll continue to watch with interest how the US fairs in the years to come.

As you apparently see little difference between Obama, Bush, and Palin, I too am glad you're not a US tax payor (but even happier that you're not a US voter).

[lvdkeyes]

Bob,
You have such a succinct way of getting your point across.

[Bob]

lvdkeyes, on 24 December 2009 - 05:57 AM, said:

Bob,
You have such a succinct way of getting your point across.

Lol. Well, I guess at times (or all the time?)I have a bit of a snotty gene but I can't help myself...

[Thaimo]

Bob, on 23 December 2009 - 03:33 PM, said:

As you apparently see little difference between Obama, Bush, and Palin

Perhaps I am overly cynical, but I do see one similarity. I don't believe a thing any of them tell us, or what anyone else speaking for the government tells us. I trust Obama's integrity far more than I trust Bush's or Palin's. As a matter of fact I don't believe Bush or Palin even possess any integrity. But I still don't believe what they tell us and I still don't believe what Obama tells us. In Obama's case, I don't think he is deliberately lying. In his case I think the rest of the government is stonewalling him and that's why I don't believe him. It's not that he won't deliver on his promises. It's that he can't. They won't let him.

I voted for Obama because I wanted to give his ideas a chance. I didn't vote for him and his policies so that I could sit back and watch other politicians telling us all about why they won't let him carry out those policies. I have a piece of news for every politician in either party who is standing in Obama's way: Next election you're not getting my vote. I'd be much happier giving Obama his chance, even if he fails, than voting for politicians who keep coming up with the same old garbage about why we can't do it his way. When you're voted out and people who will give Obama his chance are voted in, then we'll see. I think people who say they are disappointed in Obama and his first year in office are disappointed in the wrong person. I think their disappointment should be directed toward the people stonewalling him.

For me, I say to the politicians either get behind Obama and give him the chance to do what we voted for him to do or get out of politics and stay out.

[Bob]

Fair statement and reasoning, Thaimo. Too often we all forget that the President doesn't have all that much power to change things that are important without a cooperative Congress.....and getting something done by the current Congress is like pulling teeth.

[Thaimo]

Bob, on 24 December 2009 - 06:54 PM, said:

getting something done by the current Congress is like pulling teeth.

To tell the truth, I think pulling teeth, compared to this Congress, would be infinitely simpler.

[Wino]

The bottom line is the vast majority of politicians, no matter Republican or Democrat, will say almost anything to be elected. Promises are made on the campaign trail and many, if not most, are not fullfilled.

[Beer Chang]

Wino, on 25 December 2009 - 08:24 AM, said:

The bottom line is the vast majority of politicians, no matter Republican or Democrat, will say almost anything to be elected. Promises are made on the campaign trail and many, if not most, are not fullfilled.

That's the way it is.